Who doesn’t love a post about Abortion?
Oh no, get back here. Sit down. We need to talk. If you can listen to me rant about my hair and the trials of making guacamole, you can hang in here for a discussion on What Is Wrong With The “Pro Life” Movement.
First, some background information (ie, where the hell this is coming from).
I read a post a while back about a blogger who had an abortion. This was a decision she’d made a long, long time ago and she has since become a wife, mother, etc. etc. etc. She decided to post about it because of a post that she had read. She came out and said “I had an abortion, this was why, and this is how I feel about it”.
She had no sooner hit publish when the shit hit the fan. To say she was attacked would be an understatement. She was beat over the head with the fact that she had “Killed a baby!” and she could no longer be the kind of person that the child she has now could “ever look up to!” She was told repeatedly that she deserved no pity, no compassion, and nothing but scorn. She’d made her bed, and now she’d have to lie in it.
(I’m not linking to the post or the blogger because, quite frankly, if you don’t already read her I have no interest in sending over any more haters.)
Some more background information (ie, what you should know before we go any further):
I do not believe Abortion is a Choice. It’s a baby, a life, and I don’t think any of us has the right to take a life away.
I also don’t believe Abortion should be illegal – and I vote according to that belief.
My stance on the legalization of abortion has less to do with my views on whether or not it is wrong and more to do with the reality of the social climate here in this country. Namely: making abortion illegal would do little more than further abandon a lot of poor, desperate women and children who already feel like they have nowhere to turn to. We are not, at this time, a society that is fit to care for unwanted babies and the women who find themselves pregnant with them.
And the “Pro Life” movement is a perfect example of that.
With a flagship name like “Pro Life”, you would envision a cause that is about hope and love and support. You would think this was a rallying cry for loving thy neighbor and cherishing each and every one of God’s creations. In a world that made sense, the term “pro life” would be synonymous with expressions like “sanctity” and “compassion” and “precious”.
But, no.
While there is a small slice of the Pro Life movement that wisely funnels their time, money and efforts into Adoption Services, counseling for pregnant women and healing for women who have gone through an abortion – the bigger, louder chunk is a nasty, nasty thing.
It is about black and white. Right and wrong. Condemnation and arrogance.
It is about waving signs and twisted, hateful faces screaming at would be “baby killers” as they shuffle into clinics.
It is about atrocious, deadly acts of violence against doctors and nurses who perform a medical service.
And (most appalling) it is about ripping to shreds the women that need understanding and compassion the most.
What astounded me the most about the attacks on this blogger was not the insistence that abortion was wrong. What I found most upsetting was the need to berate her for a decision that cannot, at this point, be unmade. I don’t care what your stance on abortion is, once it’s been done – it’s done. And no one should understand better than a “pro lifer” that what you’re left with is a woman who is probably steeped in her own regrets and pain.
And this is who you should be attacking? This is how you demonstrate the sanctity of life? By withholding forgiveness and compassion from the person that is left living?
It just makes no sense to me. I can understand the picketing more than I can understand the hate that is lobbed at women who admit to having had abortions. At least the picketers can delude themselves into thinking they might be able to prevent something from happening.
But once it’s done… it’s done. At that point, isn’t the best thing you can do… the right thing for us to do… to try to help those women heal?
And maybe, just maybe, turn our attention to what causes a woman to head to that clinic in the first place?
Instead of screaming about how “real” a baby is and at what point a fetus is “viable” and “not viable”, wouldn’t it make more sense to roll up our sleeves and figure out why these women find themselves so desperate that they honestly and truly feel like abortion is the only way out? Would the supposed “pro lifers” make more headway if they shed a hopeful light on a few more exit plans?
But, no. Instead they turn to fear and shame and hate as weapons of progress. They hope to bully the mind into changing and the heart into guilt ridden repentance. They wave a banner of Christian Righteousness with the assurance that their hatred will somehow be validated.
And then they wonder why no one wants to listen.
I have yet to meet a woman who can talk about her abortion without crying, or hanging her head. She didn’t do it because she didn’t think it was “no big deal”. She didn’t do it because it was “just a bunch of cells anyway”.
She did it because she felt like she had to.
She will talk to you about the nights that she wonders what she could have done differently. She might share with you the questions she has about what that baby would have been like, what she would have been like if she had given birth. If you’re lucky, you will hear her talk about the fear and the hopelessness and the panic that she wrestled with before making that decision.
And you will know, for her, that it wasn’t really a choice.
And if you really, really want to make a difference? You will stop fighting so hard against the rights of this woman or that one, and start figuring out ways to give those women – and their babies – a real chance, by giving them a REAL choice.
Popularity: 3% [?]
Posted in Serious Discussions - Politics, Religion, Society
Since I don’t have anything of actual substance to post in response to this well-thought out, excellently written post, here are some dead baby jokes:
What is funnier than a dead baby?
A dead baby in a clown costume.
What is the difference between a dead baby and a Mars Bar?
About 500 calories.
Why did the dead baby cross the road?
It was stapled to the chicken.
How do you make a dead baby float?
A glass of soda water and 2 scoops of baby.
Reply
Adam’s post tonight sucked so I thought I would read yours.
From boob food to abortions. Wow.
All I have to say is…
“what your left with is a woman who is probably steeped in her own regrets and pain.”
It’s “you’re” not “your”
Reply
Oops. Name wasn’t entered above.
I am Anonymous.
Reply
*the temptation to head to the clowns site and nit pick his/her grammar is overwhelming*
What?? NO link? how odd.
Reply
I was going to put the “clap” emoticon but it’s grinning like a fool and I thought it was too cheerful. So let me just say “Hear, hear” and be done with it.
Reply
I have no blog to link to.
My grammar is awful.
The post was more just because after reading Britt’s post on abortion I had nothing of substance to add. After reading this post I read her skin tips and had to make note to look into the monistat vagina gel. Yes, I’m serious.
Ok Britt, back to your abortions.
Reply
Britt,
You make this Irish Catholic girl proud. Thank You.
Reply
Excellent!
Reply
Your views on abortion are close to mine, except that being male, it really isn’t my decision either way. I’d respect the anti-abortion activists much more if they would spend more time on reducing the causes of abortion instead of concentrating on the legality.
Reply
Bravo, truly. I find it hypocritical when men can leave the desperate women with helpless children, but women aren’t allowed make the choice whether they are indeed fit to care for unwanted babies. The worst part is, indeed, the hatred and attacks that they believe are tools for progress.
I truly believe it’s a choice we should allow women to make (with lots and lots of sex education and counseling of course – I believe it’s so necessary… I’m from NYC and there are girls whose morals are borderline lacking). Women have a heavy burden to carry, and it’s never simple as black and white.
Bravo.
Reply
Thanks for posting this, Britt. I am so tired of the hatefulness an of the pro-life movement. If it were really all about honoring life, our culture would start honoring women and creating a culture where all children were truly welcome. I know no one who has had an abortion who took it lightly or failed to see the moral dimensions of the decision. I know no one who has ever had an abortion who didn’t do so out of sheer desperation. Women need REAL choices rather than criticism and scorn.
You’re awesome, Miss Britt.
Reply
Excellent post.
Reply
Wow, I wish we all had perfect grammar and a pretty face. And I had no idea clowns had vaginas! I love that I’m always learning over here.
Britt, your post is excellent. Like you, I would not necessarily choose abortion for myself but I would and will fight like hell to keep it what it is – a choice.
I don’t get the narrow-minded hate. Or scary clowns.
Reply
avitable: heh, you said I was excellent.
Clown: damn it! I tried to go and fix it, but it looks like Adam already did.
bluepaintred: I know him – it’s OK. What he’s saying is “um, shit, I have nothing else to add… here…”
Dee: “here, here” works.
Clown: I knew what you meant.
Oh, um, unless you’re going to start wearing makeup – the vagina gel isn’t going to do much for you I don’t think.
Mary: gosh, thank you. :blush:
AmyD: thanks.
Sevesteen: there are some that do too, they just don’t seem to get the same kind of publicity.
CuriosityKiller: I wish the other options were easier to choose.
Nina: Pope John Paul called it a Culture of Death – and it wasn’t just about abortion. It was about, as you said, the fact that a lot of life is respected – especially the weakest and most vulnerable among us.
This Mom: thank you.
Kimberly: the thing is, I don’t think it starts out as hate. I mean, it can’t, right? But somehow it gets all twisty and ends up there.
Reply
Excellent post sugar.
Our views on the reality of abortion differ but we are 100 per cent the same on making sure women have real choices.
It would be wonderful if all babies could be born into healthy loving families but that’s never been the reality of the world.
Quite honestly if the so called ‘pro-life’ movement really wanted to help the children of the world they should spend their time at dependency neglect and abuse court. Yes we have a branch of COURT to deal with children whose parents don’t care for them properly. And the saddest situations of all are the ones who keep having babies removed and then having more babies.
If you shed a tear do it for these children—they are the ones who suffer most.
Reply
Well, to be honest, I said your post was excellent. You, however, are just “very good”. :nana:
Reply
Well-said, Britt.
I’d have a lot more respect for pro-lifers if they were less self-righteous and more solution-oriented.
Reply
I read a fascinating post recently about abortion that speculated that most of the people in the pro-life movement weren’t really anti-abortion, but anti-SEX and I think that’s very very true.
I got pregnant at 17 and I had one set of parents telling me to have an abortion and one set telling me to have the baby and give it up for adoption. I knew that neither of those choices were right for me and I kept my baby. That was the moment that I was completely disgusted by the pro-life movement because seeing a teenage mother, all they offered me was scorn, not support for *not* having had an abortion.
Too many people assume things about those who get pregnant unexpectedly and it often comes down to “Well, you shouldn’t have been having sex anyway.” Personally, I’ve known more women in committed relationships (marriage or otherwise) who have had abortions than uncommitted women who (they say) shouldn’t be having sex anyway.
It saddens me that THIS is considered a huge issue in our country, simply because there are no solutions here. As you say, making abortion illegal will cause a whole lot of problems, and they’re ones that those who are looking to promote fetal rights do not concern themselves with. I’m often astounded by the mindset that allows anyone to care so much about a being without cognitive thought or any real sense of awareness only to become completely dispassionate the moment it breathes its first breath.
I just don’t think that most people really think it through (at least the zealots) and yet it’s a driving factor in how people vote, sometimes it’s their single-issue.
I’d be interested in reading the post that sparked this and I understand why you didn’t link it, but if you cared to email it, I’d really like to see it.
Reply
FyreGoddess hit the nail on the head. The same pro-lifers who treat women with derision would absolutely refuse to teach their kids about safe sex, get their daughter birth control, or show any of their children how to buy condoms. Because, yes, teach your kids about abstinence, but they’re gonna do what they’re gonna do. Which means they need to know about condoms, diaphragms (Lord, did I spell that right?), oral contraceptives, and such.
If we would just teach our kids about sex and safe sex and not give their genitalia euphamisms and not treat the topic of sex as something taboo, I think we would be on our way to solving most of the abortion debate.
Anyway, great post, hon! No hatin’ here!
Reply
You know Britt I do adore you. I wish I had your words when I wrote that post, Thank you for understanding and hearing me.
Reply
Hey there – I lOVE your new layout by the way.
I guess it’s my job to be the lone little voice of pro-lifers who say “we aren’t all bad, please don’t lump us together like people lump the fag-haters with Christians” It’s just not true for all of us, and not true to the essence of my faith.
I just want to sort of stick up for the good people out there that may be part of the pro-life movement. They are not all women hating-guilt inducing – no forgiveness people. I am a strong Christian and consider myself pro-life, but would never condemn someone for something they had done in their past. Forgiveness is part of my faith and very important – you support and love them and help them move on from that.
And I’m coming to agree with you that I don’t think that abortion should be illegal because of the horrible desperation and consequences that would cause…. although I do think that third trimester abortions are just too much to bear.
In other words… please don’t lump everyone in the pro-life movement into one negative category – and this goes to all of the commenters too. There are so many organizations out there who are devoted to counseling women and helping them through these decisions and supporting them no matter what they choose to do. We have a few just here in my home town that that is there total mission.
love your blog by the way.
Reply
ohhhh. My bad.
Reply
When I was younger I believed in abortion and fully believed I would have had one had I gotten pregnant. I never did.
I am now older and still believe in Choice, but I honestly cannot think of a circumstance under which I personally would have an abortion. To me the baby would be the “busload of cats”.
Reply
I absolutely LOVE your (or is it you’re :lmao: ) writing!!! You rock Britt!
Reply
turnbaby: it is very sad how much women and children – especially children – are undervalued here.
I’m curious on how our thoughts on the reality of abortion differ…
avitable: No. I am excellent. You can’t take it back.
DaisyJo: people in general need to be more solution-oriented, I think.
FyreGoddess: she commented here… I’ll let her tell you.
And you bring up a very good point about the “anti sex” part. AND I so fucking feel you about the “Um, hell, could we stop calling me a slut for a second and pay attention to how I’m RESPONDING to the situation for just a minute?”
CMG: I think it would help, but I don’t think it would solve it completely.
I knew about safe sex. My parents taught me, my school taught me. I was on the pill most of my life.
And yet, at 19, I had unprotected sex ONE TIME. And you’ve seen pictures of how that ended up…
debkitty: you’re welcome. You deserve to be heard.
rachel: first let me say good for you for being willing to speak up here when you felt like you were going against the grain. Not a lot of people do that.
That being said… please know that I do recognize that portion. In fact, I talked about in this post.
And I for one give my money to Catholic Charities for that very reason.
bluepaintred: LOL, no, no bad – it was easy to miss – and I appreciate the intent.
Poppy: that’s how I feel too. Busload of innocent cats.
Just Me: in this case I THINK it’s “your”.
And thanks.
Reply
I am in the same mindset as Poppy. I have several friends who have had abortions (sometimes more than once).
I believe I am now at an age to accept responsibility for my actions, and cannot imagine ever having an abortion.
But that does not take away the love or support that I would bestow on others who felt that they had no other options.
It does make me sad though that so many people refuse to consider adoption as a consideration. There are so many people out there who cannot conceive, it would be giving them a gift.
Reply
This is why I love you Miss Britt! :heartbeat:
Choice is what it should be. This is America, we let non-English speaking people drive cars on our roadways, we allow children to go fight our wars, we ignore men beating their wives, but mention abortion and all hell breaks loose.
Reply
I’ve always said the time to decide if you want to become a parent is BEFORE you drop your pants. But shit happens, things are not always in our control, and we make decisions the best we can in the moment.
I have a very hard time with people who call themselves “pro-life” yet seem to have no regard for the actual life once it’s brought into this world. And seem to have even less regard for the human being carrying that life.
And Rachel, because you mentioned it and I hate that no one ever says this, please keep in mind that late-term abortions (as distasteful as they are) are generally performed either because the mother will die or the baby isn’t going to survive long after birth anyway. They aren’t done because after six or seven months mom suddenly doesn’t want the kid anymore. I don’t want to debate this point; I just get frustrated that the reason for that particular procedure gets lost because it’s horrible to think about. And if you want to slam me for saying that, you can e-mail me at grrlat at gmail dot com. I’ll send you a laundry list of conditions that might warrant such a drastic measure.
Britt… you’re going to get some e-mail girl. Brace yourself!
Reply
Oh, and I didn’t mean I was calling Rachel out… I meant if any reader has a problem with what I said…
Reply
When I got pregnant with my son, to say I freaked out would be putting it WAY too mildly! I felt backed in to a corner. I thought I was ABSOLUTELY “pro-life” until then. Anyway, I decided I was going to have an abortion. I went to the clinic. I went through everything from minor details to a psychiatric evaluation. I got through all of it. I was in the room and in the stirrups. They had already done a couple things and I saw them coming with the hose thing. I burst into tears and asked if I could still stop it or was it too late. They said it could still be stopped. I laid in that room after they had left and just sobbed. I couldn’t believe what I had almost done. It was a choice that I couldn’t commit to. Too much was on the line. I couldn’t do it.
My son just turned 10 years old. I thank God for him everyday. I knew it would be tough, but it is something I don’t regret to this day.
Even though I still feel like I am “pro-life”, I will never judge someone whose trying to make that decision. I have walked in their shoes and it is NOT easy!
Reply
I am for women having choices. I am not for or against abortion for other people. I do not think it is up to me to make that decision for them.
I have been to an abortion clinic with a friend that was raped. That was very difficult even for me, just being her friend and driver. I know of someone else that was near death due to a severe health issued that HAD to have one so she could live. These are 2 things that make me glad we live in a country that allows us to make decisions that are tailored just for us.
Reply
Sevesteen commented, well, I’m a man so it’s not my decision either way.
I don’t think that’s so. I think the fathers – and the brothers and sons and men of our society – need to acknowledge that this is an issue that everyone has a hand in, and accountability for.
I have often often wished that the dedicated pro-life people would open their homes and their hearts to at the very least the children they want to save.
Britt and I talked about this earlier. At the very core of this is a lack of value for women and children that is insidious and sneaky but very very real.
The only thing that works is compassion and real empathy, not as in “Oh, I know how you feel” but as in, getting dirty and inconvenienced and actually being willing to share another person’s story and situation and making it better.
And who in the hell is good enough to do that? :wha:
Reply
Mom, that’s one place where you and I (and Britt and I) will disagree.
I don’t think I have any say in the matter. I think that this is a woman’s decision. I will support whatever decision she makes. My role is not to decide anything to do with a woman’s body. My role is just to provide encouragement for whatever happens.
Reply
Britt’s Mom, :clap:
I think it’s important that men weigh in on this subject. Their voice should be heard and considered. Sure, it’s my body, but my decision affects many lives.
Getting pregnant is NOT like being an addict, but an addiction affects the entire family, just like an abortion does.
Reply
I am, without a doubt, 100% pro-life. Of course, I’ve never been raped or had a life threatening condition in which I was forced to choose between my life or that of my child. However, I’ve done the “Oh my God, I’m sixteen! I had sex once and used a condom…how the hell did I manage to get pregnant?!” routine.
I come from a very religious family where sex before marriage was not looked on as an acceptable thing. BUT my parents also made sure we were all aware of the options that were available to us. Not all pro-lifers are anti sex. Most, however, are anti irresponsible sex.
When I found out I was pregnant, abortion honestly never crossed my mind. It just wasn’t an option for me. I was leaning towards adoption but in my seventh month I knew I couldn’t do that either. The only option left for me was to keep the baby and raise it as best I could. I was fortunate enough to have the support of my family throughout all of this. I somehow managed to muddle through holding down a job, finishing high school and college and raising a baby by myself.
I don’t like being lumped together with all the other pro lifers because my family and church are not like the crazy people you see on tv. The only news that ever gets shown regarding the pro life movement is negative. Just like my church doesn’t picket funerals saying that God hates fags and that’s why that person died.
I can completely empathize with a young girl who really doesn’t know what the hell she is going to do in that situation. I honestly didn’t think my parents would back me up as much as they did….they went above and beyond what anyone could hope for. I don’t hate or feel any ill will towards a woman who has an abortion because she didn’t think she could handle the responsibilities of a parent and/or didn’t know what else to do. I pray for these women and hope that they somehow find solace through the passing of time.
There are two sides to every coin. Just like within the Pro Life Movement, there are some radicals and there are people who don’t neccesarily agree with abortion but can understand why someone would be driven towards that. The same goes for the Pro Choice Movement. Have you ever met a girl who encouraged you to have an abortion? I have. Wanna know why? Because her sister has had SIX and they “weren’t a big deal”. Her sister also had two kids. This sister was only twenty two and had her first abortion at 15. The reason she had these abortions? Her parents thought she was too young for birth control so they just kept paying for abortions. She was pregnant once a year for EIGHT YEARS!! And it wasn’t a big deal?? Where the hell is the reasoning behind all of that?
Sure, some people get an abortion because they don’t know what else to do. Others use it as a form of birth control. These are the ones I am against and why I am Pro Life.
To that end, I am a very pro-active Pro Lifer. I volunteer at a Pregnancy Crisis Center and do fundraisers for this center with my church. This crisis center offers free counseling, post abortion counseling, job training and placement, parenting classes, free clothing, formula and other baby supplies, along with other services. Their ultimate goal is to show girls and women that they do have alternatives other than abortion but in the end, the decision is up to her and they will be there to help her with the aftermath.
I know that I have not written this as eloquently as someone else may have and I know it’s kind of a rambling, long and drawn out comment but I tend to do that when I feel pressured to get my voice out within the time I have available to me. I wish I had the time to get even more further detailed with my experiences on both sides of the fence but I’m at work and besides, this is your blog, not mine to pull out my soapbox.
PS: To whoever said that third trimester abortions are almost always done because of medical issues….that’s not true, it’s just an excuse. I know of quite a few women who just “decided” it wasn’t gonna work out. Also, as far as the baby’s life goes, they can’t always know that for sure. The doctors wanted my sister to get an abortion when she was 35 weeks along bc the baby wouldn’t survive. My niece is going to be ten in July.
Reply
Princess of the Universe: as the daughter of an adopted child, that makes me very sad too.
Trishk: it is definitely something that I think should be TALKED about. Not rallied against, not screamed about… but discussed. In our homes. Before it hits the need for legislation.
Finn: as always, you expressed yourself well Finn. Surprisingly – these are not usually the posts that inspire email.
I’m not sure why.
pnbzmom: oh my God, I cannot even imagine the memories you must live with.
Thanks for being willing to share them here.
themuttprincess: knowing people who have been through it has definitely shaped my views on it as well.
Britt’s Mom: “and who the hell is good enough to do that?” Shouldn’t we all be?
avitable: yes, but you don’t view the world in much of an “interconnected” way either.
Poppy: and they were definitely part of the decisions that led to that pregnancy.
Sheila: I would never lump you in with the facet I’m talking about here.
And I am not at all anti-pro life. At all.
I just think that more people need to look at it the way you do – and offer the real life solutions you’re helping to provide.
And by the way, for doing that? Thank you. Seriously.
Reply
What does interconnected have to do with it?
Reply
Oh, crap, have to comment on this though:
“PS: To whoever said that third trimester abortions are almost always done because of medical issues….that’s not true, it’s just an excuse.”
That’s an unfair generalization as well.
There ARE women who are faced with that option – medically – and it’s not fair to say that they are using it as an “excuse”.
God, can you imagine if you had ever HAD to deal with that? Make that call? The freaking pain you must live with? I don’t think someone calling it an “excuse” would be fair.
And I would LIKE to believe that if I was in the situation your sister is in… I would choose what she did. Like my mom did with my baby brother.
But God if I didn’t… I can’t imagine the compassion I would need to get through it.
Reply
You don’t subscribe to the cooperative models of relationships, etc.
Reply
I subscribe to the cooperative models of relationships! I just don’t care about people I don’t know.
I also believe in the inviolable right of a woman to make her own decisions about her own body. And until that baby comes out, it’s still more her body than its.
Reply
Adam, my dear one, abortion is not about a woman making decisions about “a woman’s body” because her pregnancy is not a mole,a tumor, or any other disembodied thing. It is her child – and his, as well. And in that respect, yes, how can a father not have input about that decision?
Reply
His role should be to support whatever decision she makes.
Reply
Sheila –
May I point out that I said “almost” always in regard to late-term abortions. I did that because I know that nothing is absolute. However, a reputable doctor will not abort a viable fetus just because.
The doctors who work in women’s clinics are there because they care about women and their health (abortions are not all they do!). They are not demons or monsters.
As the mother of a child who was premature, lived in an incubator, then ended up with a physical disability, I would never presume to tell another woman what she’s able to endure. Your sister knew in her gut what the doctors didn’t. It was her choice to make, not anyone else’s. Which is precisely the point.
Reply
Well believe me it took years to accept and deal with what I almost did. The only way I really did was by realizing that I “almost” did and I chose not too. I had too stop beating myself up over something I did not do. The first few years of my son’s life were the toughest because of the tremendous guilt I felt every time I looked at him. I would cry to my mom about what a horrible person I was and how could I have even considered that. Then I worried that it meant I didn’t love him because how could I really love him if I was going to do what I was going to do.
Anyway, the point is, it gave me new perspective on what women go through when faced with that decision to make.
(It still is a little known fact that people around me don’t know.)
Reply
Adam, you help to family plan, do you not? You and Amy will decide together when/if to have children, no? Therefore, shouldn’t you at least be able to voice your opinion if she does get pregnant? Offering your voice in the matter is a form of support.
Reply
Nope. It’s not my role to make any type of decision.
Reply
I think that one of the biggest issues in the overall abortion debate is the terminology.
It has been my experience that many “pro-lifers” are actually *anti-abortion* and are, really, only pro-life when it comes to the unborn. This most certainly encompasses those who are actually anti-sex and oppose Plan B as well as, sometimes, any form of birth control. These people who are, specifically, anti-abortion (and deserve that label over any other), but call themselves pro-life also support the death penalty and see nothing wrong with “sacrificing” one’s life for their country. Anyone who is truly pro-life should be against preventable death in ALL circumstances.
But I’ve found that the opposite is true on the other side. Many of the more extreme “pro-lifers” refuse to use the term “pro-choice” and specifically call us “pro-abortion”, which really only encompasses the minority. Most pro-choice people are NOT for abortion, and quite a few have not made that CHOICE for themselves. The few who are pro-abortion (like the family that Sheila mentioned) are the ones who use it as birth control or who think of it as an “easy out”. They should not be categorized as “pro-choice” because it’s not the right to CHOOSE that they’re looking for, it’s the entitlement to have an abortion, plain and simple. But, again, they are the minority.
The fact of the matter is, it’s time to stop trying to define our melting pot of a country in black and white. I am pro-CHOICE, but not pro-abortion. I recognize that there are MANY situations in which carrying a baby to term is not possible, not safe or simply not a good idea, but I would never encourage someone to have an abortion or give their child up for adoption or keep a baby they’re not capable of raising well. That’s just too personal a decision (whatever decision gets made) for someone outside of that experience to make.
Reply
I will say one more thing and then I will shut up: I would feel unsupported if my partner didn’t voice an opinion in the matter.
k, had to say that and now my OCD brain can relax.
Reply
Why can’t all Christians be like you? You are so level headed and logical and compassionate and and and…
Great post!!
Reply
avitable: I know you say all that in theory, I just have a hard time believing that if push came to shove you wouldn’t feel like you had any kind of say in the matter.
At this point, obviously, it’s all in theory. Principles are easy in theory.
Britt’s Mom: and what the heck kind of man (not specifically adam) doesn’t feel a sense of responsibility enough that he WANTS a part of that decision?
Finn: you’re right – no absolutes. Or, rather, rarely, I guess.
pnbzmom: oh we could swap stories about the guilt over things you thought, did, or almost did when you were pregnant. Honestly.
Poppy: I completely agree that it is a form of support. If my husband looked at me and said “well, it’s your decision” I would be very frustrated that he didn’t look at it as OUR decision.
FyreGoddess: I think you’re right – those labels aren’t doing anyone any good.
Poppy: btw, I’m impressed you had this much to say on it. I kind of thought you’d stay out of it.
Jen aka Evilynmo: oh Jen, thank goodness more of them AREN’T. Really.
But I think MOST are logical and compassionate.
They just don’t make the news.
Reply
It’s not a matter of principles. And it’s not like I wouldn’t be supportive, and I wouldn’t talk about it and help and be there as a sounding board. But, in the end, I would respect her decision and support it.
Reply
:blush: Yah, I suck at staying out of things I’m passionate about. Particularly when it comes to kids and animals.
Reply
Adam, a guy can put his two cents in when he’s agreeing to the abortion. If he says the abortion MUST NOT OCCUR then he’s a jackass. Jeez…
:poke:
Reply
Britt you certainly opened up the flood gates didn’t you… atleast noone is cussing and bitching, nice to watch a decent debate with out the name calling being slung around. Thanks!
Reply
My views on abortion are irrelevant to the beliefs and the life of another woman. Maybe she doesn’t believe in God, has a differing view on “when life begins” or whatever. Just because a person has different beliefs like that doesn’t make them evil or immoral and a lot of people can’t understand that. It’s not my life so it’s not my choice.
Also, when it comes to issues like this, I don’t ask myself “What would I do?” or “what SHOULD other people do?” I ask myself, “What if it were my daughter?”
The answer is, I want her to be able to have a choice.
Reply
Ok, well, before Adam gets the hell bashed out of him. I have to say that I respect his views and that I agree. He’s absolutely right, that is the only role a man should have. I have to say – my body, my choice. He’s not the one who is going to end up with his feet in stirrups either way it ends up.
My husband actually feels the same way Adam does and YES he has been in the position. Many years before we got together he and a girlfriend were faced with an unplanned pregnancy. She got an abortion, he regrets it, but he still supports her choice and her right to make it.
That’s not to say that sometimes he doesn’t think about the daughter or son who would be in his/her 20’s now. But, it wasn’t his choice to make and he knows that.
While I am not sure that I could go through with an abortion (and I have had 3 chances to think about it, starting at the age of 15) It’s not someone else’s right to decide that for me.
As far as I am concerned this shouldn’t even be an issue where voting, politics or religion even comes into play. It should be viewed (in terms of religions, politics, etc.) as any other voluntary medical procedure, no different than plastic surgery or gastric bypass.
Reply
You’re right Britt and Finn. I included the word “almost” but it’s true that that is an unfair generalization. But I have heard of women who’ve had them at a late date, for a reason other than medical.
As far as being “pro life” but being for the death penalty goes….I am for the death penalty because I am pro life. An eye for an eye and all that. I only extend my value of life to those that actually deserve it. An innocent baby who did not ask to be conceived is on a completely different level than Timothy McVay, John Wayne Gacey, Jeffrey Dahmer and a whole slew of other murderers.
The same people who are the radical end of the Pro Choice group, are the same ones who picket for the right to life of a person on death row, saying that it is cruel and unusual punishment.
I’m not sure if any of you have ever heard of her but there is a lady named Gianna Jennson who actually survived a late term saline abortion. Here is a link to an article about her :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4500022.stm
In the article she says something that really sticks out in my mind “My mother was making a decision that was ‘only hers to make’, but I bear the scars of that.”
I will never stop being active in the fight for the rights of unborn children. But I will also never stop praying for and being as supportive as I possibly can be to those who have chosen or will choose to abort their babies. Each situation and woman is different. There is no cookie cutter answer to the dilemma that each of us has faced at some point. Instead of everyone always fighting about it, there needs to be a common ground. More support, resources and education would go a long way to stop the need for abortions, in my opinion, and from what I can tell, the opinion of many others who have commented.
I will say though, that it is nice to be able to actually have a discussion about such a tough topic and not have everyone fighting and berating one another in an attempt to one up the other. As far as the inconsiderate people on the other lady’s board, you should remind all the haters what the Bible says about judging people and casting stones. No sin is worse than another.
Reply
avitable: OK. I hear you.
Poppy: good to know.
RW: I haven’t got the slightest idea what you’re trying to say here.
debkitty: I’m OK with that. Like you said, it’s been pretty respectful. I think it’s something people should talk about.
annie: I can understand that thinking. Much like I can understand at least the pro life position.
What I can’t understand is any time anyone chooses to use guilt and fear and hate as a method for change. That’s all I was trying to say.
AmyD: Um, #1 – I sure wouldn’t bash Adam for disagreeing or having his own opinion.
And I can’t pretend to understand it, because I don’t.
But maybe that’s because I don’t see it at ALL as the same thing as plastic surgery or a gastric bypass.
Whether you call it a baby or a lump of cells, the FACT is that half of that genetic material came from someone else.
Of course the reality, sadly, is that in a lot of cases it is the woman left to “deal” with it – no matter what.
But aren’t we just perpetuating that problem by saying “he has no say, it’s all her”. If we take away the right to an opinion or input, isn’t that the same as taking away the responsibility and accountability, in effect affirming that “it’s HER problem now”?
Reply
I was going to use the rock out face, but that’s too Metallica for this.
But, seriously, rock the hell on.
Now if only we could get the schools to teach sex ed in a real way instead of just “this is how a period happens” maybe we could make some real headway into the storm.
I’m not pointing fingers and saying its only high schoolers who get an abortion, but I remember both the sex talks at my school and the one I got from home. Neither one was accurate (though my Mama certainly did her best and did a hell of a lot better than the high school, which was too late on most counts). But the education has to start somewhere, and for many people, it’s not at home.
Reply
Early on I somehow got the idea that I should have no say in the matter since as a guy it isn’t something happening to my body. Then I heard that I should have a say but the final decision shouldn’t be mine. I wonder – out loud – what would happen if someone wanted to have the support of the guy to get an abortion and then heard him say “under no circumstances will you have an abortion.” I’m pretty sure a bill was introduced in Ohio recently that would give a man equal say in the matter and it was thrown out, which means in that case that the law says he doesn’t get to make a call, legally.
I’m only joking, sort of, that there are people in the world who would love to hear the guy’s point of view so long as it agreed with theirs. Then I said “jeez” and did a pokey thing because that’s the kind of a guy I am.
And pro-choice, just for the record.
Reply
OK let me see if I understand this: You feel abortion is wrong so you support the right to choose and when Adam says he is willing to support whatever decision you make, that’s wrong?
Nawww I’m just messin with you. I agree, I feel the hatred that has been driving this country’s politics for the past 15 -20 years has to stop. A Southern Baptist driven Political Agenda is just as wrong as if a Celtic belief system (that would require monthly orgies and an occasional virgin sacrifice), were forced upon a diversified public. … well maybe not AS wrong, I mean considering I lost my virginity to a Farah poster many moons ago… That whole Druid thing sounds pretty cool now-a-days!
Eh… wanna drop by my place and see my Stone Henge, baby??
Reply
I think the absolutely-anti-abortion people (to set them apart from the compassionate pro-lifers who are trying to educate and support others) are probably just very insecure and, for whatever reason, have grown to believe that to question is to be blasphemous. Having lived with someone who was brought up in an environment where asking questions resulted in often violent punishments, I understand that sometimes it is just not within a person’s power to step outside of themselves and say “yeah, but what about…?” When forced to ask questions, their reaction is anger that is fueled by the guilt of even acknowledging the question itself. They’ve been taught “this is right, this is wrong and challengers must be punished.”
I don’t agree with anti-abortionists’ tactics, in fact I think they are setting their own movement back by acting so violently, but having lived with someone who can’t *not* do what they are told–I can have compassion for where they are coming from, even if I don’t agree with what they have to say.
What amazes me is that we live in a society in which love and sex are considered dirty and wrong and things to be shunned, but fighting and violence are not just okay, they are encouraged and rewarded. Why is the kiss always faded to black on television, but violence is shown from every angle possible?
Reply
I agree with Adam….(please don’t throw a shoe!) My husband used those exact words to me and meant them. It was always MY choice. Well I made it and he came along for the ride. That choice is upstairs singing in his room and he’s 27 now!
This post was brilliant and I love your balls! :peace:
Reply
First time commenter (commentor? who the hell knows) here…just popping in to say “AMEN!!!”
While the theory of a “Pro-Life” movement is a good one, the fact that the face of that movement has become a face of judgment, condemnation, and hatred instead of support and caring makes me sick. When I see news coverage of some poor woman going into or coming out of a clinic with people screaming “Baby killer” at her, it breaks my heart. Nobody should have to deal with that. Nobody. I don’t care what your political or religious convictions are…you have no right to viciously attack another human being at a vulnerable moment. In my opinion, that goes against the very principle of valuing life and people that they claim to hold.
Thanks for taking on a tough issue and opening a conversation!
Reply
Sheila: sorry – you got stuck in the filter with the link! Wow, that is a really interesting article!!
RE: death penalty. I am not going to be a proponent of ANYONE’S death. Ever.
But I definitely see the irony you’re pointing out (and it seems off that the flip side has the same polar yet equally ironic views.)
Marissa: schools, parents, someone. We NEED to talk about “this is how things should be. This is why – because it’s really fucking hard the other way. And if that doesn’t work.. well, these are the options.”
RW: Ah, thank you, I get it now.
I think, in this case, it’s if there is disagreement that it’s most important that he speaks up.
No, wait. I’m full of shit. If she wants an abortion, and he doesn’t, I think he should get a say. Because it might not be in his body, but it’s still his child too.
I think women have the responsibility of pregnancy, childbirth instead of men – and that that is a RESPONSIBILITY and a PRIVILEDGE… not a power. That didn’t come out right – but you know what I mean.
Reply
I can’t begin to agree with a man having equal say just because 15 seconds of fun created a chemical reaction (oh shit, here it comes now). Yes, it’s a baby and you know how I feel about that. But, the fact is – it’s MY body being stretched out, MY perineal muscles left to hopefully regain their strength (after all, he’s not going to have to worry about dribbling when he laughs, sneezes or coughs) and it’s MY body that is on the table in stirrups with everyone staring at my hoo-ha.
If a man is going to be there he needs to be so in a supportive capacity but giving any man a SAY in what happens to MY BODY – to me, is just insane.
Baby or not – an abortion is STILL a voluntary medical procedure, just like plastic surgery or gastric bypass. It just is.
Reply
Y2k Survivor: that’s some pretty awesome wisdom in there – y’know – sandwiched between the other stuff.
Erin: valid, valid points.
metalmom: no shoe throwing allowed, unless you call me fat or something!
Let me ask you this – did you expect your husband to just come along for the ride when your child was growing up? Or did you expect him to be a 50/50 partner and contribute to raising him?
Patti: thank you for contributing to it. And you’re right – no one deserves to be attacked. Ever.
I think it’s commenter. But you can say it however you want, because it’s a word made up by bloggers.
Reply
And, I was not saying that you were bashing, Adam.
But, it’s not just Adam with this opinion. Look at MetalMom, my husband, Adam – these men understand that it isn’t their body. And, no I don’t think it’s is about the same as telling a woman it is her problem. A decent man will provide the support and sounding board that the woman he cares about requires.
Reply
AmyD: it might be YOUR body, but it’s his baby too. And you offered to share that body when you had sex.
And, like I said before, you expect them to be there just as much as you after the birth – right?
ANYway… that wasn’t really the point I was trying to make with the post anyway.
Reply
Here I go again and I’ll stop – your question to MetalMom – in a world filled with single parents and grown adults making decisions whether or not to contribute to their offspring’s upbringing… that’s not the most fair question. Just because a husband and father should (hopefully) contribute to the well-being of their child, does not mean they should have a say in what happens to someone else’s body.
Did you ever read “A Handmaid’s Tale” ? If we aren’t careful with the rights we have right now – we are always in danger of losing complete control of our bodies and our choices.
The fact remains – this should NOT be something that is up for debate ANYWHERE. It’s a personal choice and that’s the end of it.
Reply
Britt, no offense, I understand it wasn’t the point of the post. But, it’s very easy to say, Oh, you shared your body when you had sex. So how many other rights there are you saying he has? Or he only has say if he causes conception?
And, it’s lovely to say, “oh it’s his baby too.”
But, it isn’t his uterus, it isn’t his vagina, it isn’t HIS body being stretched out, or caused pain, or forced to push something the size of a lemon out of something the size of a watermelon. It isn’t him dealing with incontinence later, or the risk of death during delivery, or the risk of emergency hysterectomy or c-sections.
And, I notice – you avoid addressing that by skirting over it with a very pretty and romanticized notion of, “it’s his baby, too.”
It’s his baby when he can touch and DO something to HELP, until then, it’s in my body and my body is paying the price – he should have no say in that.
Reply
This comment is simply because I forgot to check the box to get the updates……
Reply
AmyD: and I suppose that’s where it comes back to the ultimate question of whether or not you see it as a baby, or as a chemical reaction.
Because if you just see it as a chemical reaction that happens inside your body, and not as a child until it’s born, then the logic of My Body My Choice makes sense.
BUT… if you see it as a baby from conception… then it’s not just your body. It’s a baby’s body too.
Man, I hate to boil it down to that because that seems to take out all the extenuating circumstances, etc. etc. etc. that I’m trying to advocate people stop and think about.
But ultimately, I suppose it’s how you answer that first question that determines your thoughts on the rest of them.
Is it a baby? Or is it a chemical reaction?
I know my answer to that. And I know that for me, that’s why I don’t view abortion as an option.
Reply
I know that I’m late, but I just wanted to say that I agree totally with you. I do not believe that there is ever a good reason for someone to have an abortion. On the other hand, I read the post that the other person wrote (not going to out her), and I understand where she was coming from. I understand why she felt that she had no other choice.
In my eyes, the problem lies with the people that you described in your post- those who will chain themselves to the doors of abortion clinics in an effort to keep women from going through the doors, but will offer no help, no support, and no options other than “give it up for adoption” (Not all Pro-Lifers, but most of them). I know that some of the people that are standing there protesting have children of their own. Can they not see how hard this is for the woman? Can’t they see the pain that this has caused her? Can they not offer help and hope, and love instead of rejection and cruelty and hatred?
This is a very touchy subject for me, because I want to have children, but there is only a small chance that I will ever be able to conceive on my own. My husband and I have considered adoption, and will likely go with that option in the future. Have I ever felt anything horrible toward someone that had an abortion because I am not able to get pregnant? No. I can honestly say that I have not. I am a firm believer that you need to “walk a mile in the other person’s shoes” before you even think about passing judgment on someone based on the things that they do. When I see someone that is facing abortion, I just want to scoop them up and hug them and hold them. I want to make everything okay- but I cannot do that. I’m not God. The only thing that I can do is be supportive no matter what choice is made, and I’m going to do that because it was not my choice. My choice is to either love and support people, or to hate and ridicule people. I don’t have it in me to hate someone. Besides, there is already enough hate in this world to go around. We don’t need any more.
Reply
First of all…You go girl! Love it and Amen.
Second. I can’t really say where I sit on the fence. I know that it would kill me a little inside to have an abortion and I do not believe I could ever do it. However, I believe in the womans right to choose and feel that it is not my place to judge someone else for their actions.
Well written Miss Britt!
Reply
And I forgot to check the box! LMAO
Reply
Yes, I did see what you were trying to say in your post. Sorry if I went off in general on my views.
It pisses me off no end that the people who argue so vehemently against abortion do absolutely nothing to help women who find themselves in this position, and usually it’s these same people who argue against sex education and low cost health care services and vote for all kinds of cuts to family aid. How many insurance companies have to be forced by their state to even provide coverage for birth control pills, while they hand out viagra like candy? It’s archaic!
Reply
Being a Catholic girl, too, I am aligned with you. I would never, ever choose abortion for myself. However, if someday I am raped and conceive or my best friend’s daughter is molested by her uncle and conceives or one of my daughters has to choose between her life and that of her unborn child I don’t think that someone else should have the right to tell us what is right and what is wrong.
As a nurse, I know of a couple who tried and tried to conceive. They finally found out that she was pregnant. They did the prenatal screening tests for hepatitis and HIV among other illness that they routinely check for prenatally. She found that she was HIV positive. Her choices were terminate the pregnancy and get treatment right away and no worry about if you would pass it on to said child or keep the pregnancy and hope for the best. How would any of us handle that decision? Who knows? Until we are in that situation none of us can truly know. Which is why someone else shouldn’t be making the decision for us.
I hope that is all coherent.
Reply
I believe that abortion should be illegal. I think that it is the killing of a life that none of us should have the power to end unless it’s endangering the life of another. Less than 2% of abortions are due to rape or medical reasons… 98% aren’t. Not a popular opinion, but then again – it was legal to beat your wife once upon a time too. Legal certainly doesn’t always mean true or correct.
That said, my own daughter found herself in such a difficult situation that she seriously considered an abortion. As a family we promised to do everything she needed done to help her through the pregnancy and to take care of the child… whatever it took – financial, emotional, practical help… whatever it took – we were there. Many many young women don’t have that, and for them they cannot see past their own painful overwhelming situation. My heart breaks for those women. When my daughter found out she was pregnant – Family planning gave her no referrals to crisis pregnancy centers – only to the abortion clinic.
Declan is 16 months old now. It wasn’t easy.. but she was stronger than she thought she was and though we are all here for them – she’s had to do a lot for herself as well.
As for the death penalty – I am for the death penalty for those who rape and murder. But only with 2 eyewitnesses who know the accused, or concrete DNA evidence. An innocent life cannot be sacrificed in an effort to ensure punishment of the guilty.
Our church has a counseling program to help women who are struggling with the after effects of abortion… there is much more to their hearts and their lives than the abortion in their past, and the pain they are enduring has sometimes lasted longer than the time it would’ve taken to raise the child to adulthood. I’m very supportive of adoption… it’s a better choice – for mother and child… and unlike abortion – if you are devastated about that choice down the road – you can someday look into the eyes of your child and tell them so.
Reply
I agree 100% with everything Adam has said today. Oh, except that Britt IS excellent.
Reply
Angel: whenever I read your comments, I am struck by how appropriate your name is.
Rachel:I think it’s awesome when people are brave enough to say “I’m not really sure where I sit on this, because it’s tough.”
annie:you’re absolutely right.
Shelli: it was coherent, and obviously heartfelt. Thank you.
Annie: first let me say thank you for your comment.
Now, I really can’t wrap my head around someone who is against abortion, but supports the death penalties with this, this and that exception.
That’s the same argument, essentially, that people make for leaving abortion as an option.
Mr. Fab: actually, that doesn’t surprise me.
Reply
I always thought I was pro-choice. I think I still am. This being sad, my daughter had an abortion a bit over a year ago. It was one of the saddest things I can remember. I cried. I begged her not to. I showed her pictures of an aborted fetus. I did things I would find reprehensible if others did them. It’s the woman’s choice, absolutely. If abortions were illegal, I shudder to think what would happen to women who would get them otherwise. I know my daughter. I hate that she killed my grandchild… but I love her. Unconditionally.
Wow, this made no sense… I guess I just wanted to ramble
Reply
Lin: I think you just showed what Poppy mentioned earlier – it affects more than just the would-be mother.
I’m sorry you and your daughter had to go through that.
Reply
I simply have an issue with the Gov. even having a say in these things at all. Pro choice or not…
Reply
For the record I was raised Catholic so I know all the doctrine and dogma about it being a child from the moment of conception.
I just don’t believe that is true. To me it’s got the potential to be but it is not.
And I’m with Adam and Fabby and AmyD and RW and whomever else commented about how involved the biological fathers should be in the process.
I don’t think that the biological father should ever be able to make the decision. I think that the role the man has in the decision depends in large part on the relationship or lack thereof between the parties.
Obviously this discussion between a married couple would be different than one had (if at all) between people who just hooked up.
It’s a complicated issue that I really think is so much better discussed as you have here sugar than flouted about as some giant political club.
Reply
Just to respond to your response:
I told him to walk-no run- away fast! I had already made a choice before telling him I was pregnant. I had no illusions of “happily ever after” since we had only been together a month and a half. I was already resigned to the fact that was joining the ranks of single motherhood.(ALL 100% TRUE!) He was the one who TOLD me we were getting married. and that he was gong to be a dad all the way. So I do realize how lucky I’ve been and I know that I don’t fall anywhere near the norm!
Reply
you are so wise.
well done, britt. well done.
Reply
OK, here go’s/ Got pregnant 1982. One night stand. Father didn’t care. Your problem deal, with it. Had a three year old. Didn’t want her life to suck or mine. Father didn’t care to find out what happened. I never regretted decession. Learned my lesson. I don’t believe it should be a form of birth control, but I don’t believe a one night stand should be something you should pay for with a three year old childs life. Never went without protection again. My daughter is a great mom. And I am a wonderful grandma. Thank you, for Pro-Choice 24 years later.
Reply
My best friend was raped at 21. She became pregnant as a result of the rape. She had an abortion. I can tell you for a fact that she did not make that decision lightly as she is a strict Catholic. Twenty years later she still thinks about the child she aborted. It is her deepest regret that she did so even though the child was conceived out of violence with a man she didn’t know who held a knife to her throat. This is an excellent post, Britt. I completely agree with all your points. Very thoughtfully presented.
Reply
I think all those folks practice dark magic. They get theirs in the end. But in the meantime, they suck.
Great post! You are very brave.
Reply
This is one of those sticky situations.
I had a miscarriage last month and would have moved heaven and hell to keep my baby.
When I hear of people having abortions it completely breaks my heart. I would have their baby if they don’t want it.
But, it’s not my choice to make…it’s theirs.
Very tough post….good job!!
Reply
geek: I can understand that. The gov’t has it’s fingers and toes in way, way too much.
turnbaby: I think, to be fair, you’re probably right about how far I’d take the father’s rights too – meaning that the relationship between the two might play a role.
metalmom: I’m with you in that abnorm, thank God.
hellohahanarf: I dunno, I don’t have very many answers.
Gee: Thank you for sharing your experience here.
Selma: ugh, I hate that regret. When I hear women talk about it just twists my guts for them.
On a Limb with Claudia: tee hee, I’m sorry – I’m reading Harry Potter right now, so I’m really hung up on the “dark magic” part.
bek: I think it is really amazing you can go through what you’re going through and still defend someone else’s right to that choice. Really. That is compassion in practice, and really rare.
Reply
Honestly, I have mixed feelings on the subject, probably because my husband can’t have children, I want children, and adopting a child isn’t always easy either. (Especially when you don’t have money.)
As for Adam’s point of view. I think I understand where he is coming from. (This isn’t to say I agree, btw. I prefer to remain neutral.) I had a friend in high school who got pregnant. Her boyfriend’s say in the matter was that he wanted her to have the child and they raise it together. Her point of view was that he had no say in what she did with her body. Two days after that conversation, she had an abortion. They ended up having two kids later in the relationship, but I think they both thought about that abortion. I know she did.
Reply
A lot has been said on this, but I just wanted to comment on the origional post and say “well said”
Reply
Britt, if someone described rape as the devastating, horrific invasion of a human being’s rights — and then turned around in the next sentence and argued that this devastating, horrific invasion ought to become legal, would you find your head spinning?
Reply
Lynda: I think it’s pretty common to have mixed feelings, because there are so many ways that it can and probably has affected someone’s life.
Crazy Lady in Vegas: LOL, thanks.
bg: of course I would.
I don’t think that’s exactly comparing apples to apples though. And it’s unfortunate that people don’t read further than “I think it needs to be legal right now” to find out why.
Reply
Britt, you said:
“It’s a baby, a life, and I don’t think any of us has the right to take a life away.
I also don’t believe Abortion should be illegal – and I vote according to that belief.”
Isn’t that a contradiction? If you don’t believe that anyone has the right to take a life away, why do you believe abortion should be legal?
You gave this as a reason: “Namely: making abortion illegal would do little more than further abandon a lot of poor, desperate women and children who already feel like they have nowhere to turn to. We are not, at this time, a society that is fit to care for unwanted babies and the women who find themselves pregnant with them.”
So are you saying that the legalized ending of unborn life is okay because we are not equipped to care for moms and babies?
If you saw a homeless man on the street about to be murdered, would you do nothing? Do you think we should legalize the killing of the homeless because our society isn’t equipped to handle all of the homeless people that we have?
Consider this scenario: What if a single mother becomes a drug addict and loses her job? What if she decides she no longer wants that crying infant who is a burden to her? She might feel she has nowhere to turn to. Should she be able to kill her infant?
Where do you draw the line with these issues and why?
On the subject of pro-lifers, don’t believe everything you see in the media. I’ve been to events where there are wonderful, NORMAL, loving people in the multitudes. But you know what you’ll see on the news?
You’ll see the crazy old men waving “baby killer” signs and think that’s the majority.
And you know what? I don’t know one person who is pro-life who is that way. All of my friends who are pro-life are caring, compassionate, and non-judemental people who are helping women and their children.
I’ve worked with Project Rachel, which is a pro-life group solely dedicated to helping women heal from the pain of abortion.
When I was pregnant at 16, I phoned Planned Parenthood for help. I told them I needed prenatal care because I was keeping my baby. I was turned away and rudely told, “We don’t do that sort of thing here.”
Who was there to help me? Birthright. A pro-life group. They offered me help with whatever I would need, whether it be food, clothing, housing, transportation, money….for both me and my baby.
So it always gets under my skin a bit when I see pro-lifers get a bad rap. The people you mention, and the people who commented her mentioned, are not the majority and really do not represent the pro-life movement. Not even close.
BlondeBlogger’s last blog post..“The Spitzer Girl”
Reply
I talked in the post specifically about other Pro Life organizations.
Regarding why I don’t think it should be illegal:
a) I do understand the frustration. I understand the feeling that murder is murder. I do.
b) Realistically – if abortion was made illegal right now, it wouldn’t stop abortions. It would make them more dangerous for everyone involved.
Rather than focus my attention on making it illegal, I’d like to focus on making women feel like they have some place else to turn.
Reply
Hey Britt,
First of all, I want to say how much I enjoy a respectful, healthy debate on these issues. I admire your ability to share your opinions, but also to respect the opinions of others. Please know that I feel the same way.
Okay, on to the topic…..you might have mentioned other pro-life groups, but the main point of your post was about the major stereoptypes of pro-lifers. I think it makes it seem as if the majority are that way. Especially since you said:
“While there is a small slice of the Pro Life movement that wisely funnels their time, money and efforts into Adoption Services, counseling for pregnant women and healing for women who have gone through an abortion – the bigger, louder chunk is a nasty, nasty thing.”
And you generalized about what the pro-life movement is “all about” (which is not what you thought it should be about).
My point is that the pro-life movement IS all about those things and the ones who give us a bad name are not a “bigger chunk.” Louder? Yes, most definitely. And they get the most exposure from the media too. That’s no accident. But they are not the majority.
Secondly, abortions have skyrocketed since abortion was legalized. And that’s not simply because they were legal. In the first five years or so, they were FAR lower than they are today.
No law will ever stop whatever is being banned from happening. We have laws against murder (outside of the womb), theft, and rape and they still happen.
But without those laws, the rates would be much higher. So, for me, I don’t feel that we should look the other way simply because it will still happen. To me, that doesn’t justify legalizing it.
Thanks again for bringing up such an important topic and letting us all have a say in it.
BlondeBlogger’s last blog post..“The Spitzer Girl”
Reply
Oh, and for the record…..my father once told me that had abortion been legal when I was conceived, my mother would’ve had one (you might not be surprised to know I don’t speak to my father anymore). My mother has said it’s not true.
Take that for what it’s worth, which may not be much. If my father is right, though, the whole “they’ll do it anyway even if it’s illegal” argument didn’t work in my case. And I am here today because abortion was illegal at that time.
I wonder how many other children would’ve been here too, if we had never made it legal.
BlondeBlogger’s last blog post..“The Spitzer Girl”
Reply