Soooo… I am an ignorant ass.
And worse? I have been ignorant to my ignorance. And worse still? I have been passing on my ignorance in the form of parental wisdom!
And I’m not talking about the little Piggy who ate pork chops.
Worse.
Apparently, Jews are not “pretty much like Christians, except they don’t believe in Jesus,” contrary to what I’ve been telling my son.
(Fuck this is so embarrassing. Why, WHY can I not just ignore my impulse to share everything with the Internet?)
Last week, I read this post from the Queen of All Things Jewish. And in her comments, CP informed me that Jews do not believe in Heaven, but some kind of eternal reincarnation.
What le fuck?
I was dumbfounded (ie: found to be very dumb). Somehow, this was the first time in 27 years of what I had assumed to be Fairly Enlightened Living that I had ever heard of Jewish people not believing in a Heaven.
I had always assumed that Judaism and Christianity were pretty much the same thing. The most notable difference being that Jewish people were still waiting for a Messiah, while Christians were all “dude, no, seriously, He’s right HERE!”.
Apparently, there is a little more to it.
Enter Google and my need to be Informed and therefore not An Ignorant Bigot Passing On Misinformation To My Children And Contributing To The Intolerance And Division That Plagues Humanity. Because no one wants to be that. That won’t even fit on a t-shirt.
My first response to “Do Jews Believe In Heaven?” yielded an article that explains a kind of multi-stage afterlife, including Gehenom, Heaven and “people who are punished eternally”.
Ahem. At the risk of paraphrasing too much (again), this sure sounds a heck of a lot like the Catholic explanation of Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. In fact, the description given in this article of Gehenom is almost exactly the same as my understanding of Purgatory (“It is for people who have done good but need to be purified.”).
Ok, so now I am confused. If this article is correct, than perhaps I have not been the world’s most unfit Keeper Of Future Citizens.
Clearly, a better Google is needed. “Do Jews believe in reincarnation?” brought me to this answer:
“A: Reincarnation has never been a doctrine of mainline Judaism and does not seem to be typical of most modern Jewish thought, although the idea has cropped up from time to time among certain Jewish sects. The Zohar (book of Jewish mysticism) is said to refer to it several times, both in the sense of the soul of a person entering another person, and even into the body of an animal or insect as a sort of purgatory. The Karaites were apparently the first Jewish sect to adopt the notion of reincarnation in the eighth century, apparently at least in part in an attempt to account for the suffering of innocent children. The argument was that they must have sinned previous life in order to deserve such hardship. (See John 9 for Yeshua’s explanation) Saadia Gaon called the idea of reincarnation “nonsense and stupidity.” The Jewish philosopher Jewish Albo also rejected the idea of the “transmigration of souls” in the fifteenth century..”
Fuck. Now I am thoroughly confused. If you can’t trust Google to teach you about different cultures, who the hell can you trust??
Obviously, Moses. At least in matters of Judaism.
So I asked Moses, and Moses said “yes”. Actually, Moses said “the answer is yes” - which I think is even more definitive.
Moses also went on to tell me that (basically) there are some people who disagree. And those people are stupid. (Moses tried to be polite about it and insinuate they were merely misinformed, but I got what he was serving up.(Yo.))
I decided it was time to talk to Moses one on one and clicked on the Chat Now link (and my kids wonder what I am doing that makes me too busy to make a big breakfast on Sundays).
Click more to read the transcript of my conversation with Moses.
(seriously? you’re still here? wow.)
missbritt: do jews believe in reincarnation?
Rabbi Elishevitz (now affectionately known as Moses): yes, we do
missbritt: OK, I am Catholic, and I have a friend of mine who is Jewish - and she recently mentioned reincarnation
missbritt: this was the first I’d heard of it
Moses: Maybe the following from our knowledgebase will be helpful…
missbritt: yeah, i saw that
Moses: Here’s one more
missbritt: there is a lot of information online that talks about something strikingly similar to hell, heaven and purgatory
missbritt: soooo - do jews believe in reincarnation AND Gehenom
Moses: yes, they are 2 separate things
Moses: reincarnation means that the soul returns to earth to complete it’s mission
Moses: sometimes to utilized unused potential - in those cases it’s not a punishment at all
Moses: in other cases it’s is a punishment in order to correct something that one did wrong
missbritt: i see
missbritt: if jews believe that “Eventually, all souls will return in the resurrection of the dead at the end of days.” - why do you need a messiah?
Moses: The Messiah and the Resurrection are two very different things
Moses: The Messiah will bring the world to it’s perfection
Moses: in the Messianic era the world will finally look the way it was meant to be
Moses: The Resurrection which will be at a later stage is mainly a means to reward people who have lived in earlier generations
missbritt: so the Messiah is more for the Earth as a whole than the individual soul’s “salvation” or not?
Moses: that’s right
missbritt: OK, that makes sense, kind of :-)
missbritt: what is this source - the AMFI, which says that modern Jews do NOT believe in reincarnation?
missbritt: is that a different sect of judaism?
Moses: it’s not Judaism
Moses: It’s a sect in Christianity, ironically called “Messianic Jews”
missbritt: really?? wow, it LOOKS very jewish :-)
Moses: they want to make it attractive to Jews
missbritt: ok, well thank you very much - and one last question - do you mind if I post a transcript of my chat with you on my blog? this has been very helpful
Moses: that’s fine, just give a link to our site
So. There you have it (for those of you still reading along).
It being:
- I am a retard.
- Jews do believe in reincarnation.
- And are actually really, really different from Christians. Which kind of explains the whole “completely separate doctrines of faith” thing a little more.
- Some people like to dress up as Jews, but aren’t really Jews, in order to get you to - um… I’m not exactly sure why someone would do that.
- From now on when my son has questions about other cultures, I will point him to Google.
- Or maybe not.
- Perhaps I will just tell him that different is bad and get your ass back to memorizing Hail Mary’s!!
- Moses said I was right.
- “that’s right” is clearly the same as I’m right when “that” is referencing “me”.
- Moses needs publicity too.
The End
P.S. HolyFuckCulturalDiversityIsExhausting
Posted in On A Serious Note, just rambling
Wow! I actually dated a guy who was Jewish for a while and didn’t know that. Thanks for the info.
All these years I’ve been taking days off for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur without truly understanding the religion of which I was taking advantage. The things you can learn from Moses!
See?
When I was using wildebeest in a sentence and realized I didn’t have a good idea of what itwas, I did the same thing. Well, I mean, I didn’t talk to Moses or Mr. Wildebeest but you know what I mean.
And yes, I did get the reference to the little piggies eating pork chops. Hahahahahahahahahaha
Actually, we don’t believe in hell at all. We have an equivalent of what you would call purgatory…and that is the “wait period” of one year, where the dead stay in limbo so to speak. I asked my Rabbi this weekend and he told me different sects of Judaism believe different things. I was going by reconstructionalist thinking, as I am not an orthodox Jew. Our Garden of Eden and your description of Heaven are very close. No doubt there. It does get confusing/tricky…even for me. Though, from what my Rabbi explained…Jews believe that they return to the earth again and again. Makes a person think of “reincarnation”, right? That was my interpretation of it…and apparently, that info was confirmed by the Rabbi. But again, I caught this same man eating a pork Cuban sandwich down in Tampa. He drives a Mazda RX7 and rarely wears a yamucha.
I am glad you found answers from Moses. Send him over to my house when you are done with him.
CP.
Yes, very enlightening. Now, back to the bar…
So when is Moses going to repeat on that Red Sea thing?
I’m down for some easy clamming.
wow. i honestly learned something here today. i had, like you, thought that judaism was much similar to christianity than they seem to be.
Totally off topic. I haven’t even read the post yet… but it’s 6:56am and I’m sitting on a stoop on 35th street in Manhattan, and I swear to fucking God your CLONE just walked by.
Shocked the shit out of me.
just when i thought i might start visiting blogs, you go and reel me in with posts such as this… now if only you could motivate me to use caps.
You know…I am on vacation this week, and have been trying to avoid any kind of enlightenment at all. You just fucked that up royally.
I might as well go to work.
All I care about is the fact that the Jews instigated the circumcision. I mean male peepees are not cute as it is, but I like the circumcised ones. Thank you Jews.
That doesn’t mean I am leaving you uncirced dudes out of my pleasure chest. It just means we have to have a little talk beforehand.
Gabrielle: really? So, “what happens when YOU die?” never come up over drinks?
Crazy.
avitable: Moses is both smart and credible. Which I think makes him Hot in some sectors. Or is it sects?
Mom: you have passed on both your endless curiosity, and your sick pleasure in fucking with the minds of small children while they are completely unaware.
next weekend I tackle Rye bread!! :)
(and thank you, really, I hope you don’t mind me snooping around through your Temple and stuff!)
AmyD: ya know, snarky bitch, tolerance is infinitely cooler when it is INFORMED tolerance! :tongue:
NYCWD: I dunno, but you could ask him! (askmoses.com!)
t: you’d think all the kosher-ness would have been a sign, right? Glad I could spread the knowledge love!
Rich: my clone is living it up in Manhattan. Figures.
Lin: oh I am the wrong one to advocate the shit key. seriously.
Mr. Fabulous: spoon fed enlightenment does not count as work.
I love Jewish people. Anybody who can come up with that deli idea has GOT to have a straight line to God.
Thank you for enlightening me to something. I already forgot what it was. ( I need more coffee!!)
Does it still count as my learning one thing every day? (cuz if it does, then I am just gonna go back to sleep–forget the coffee!!!)
You are an odd little duck, darling.
Miss Britt, I have Jewish friends who are confused by these questions. Also, I read a disproportionate number of blogs written by Jewish people and I even asked them and THEY are confused. So don’t be so hard on yourself already. It is difficult enough to sort out Catholicism.
(Plus Ann Coulter says once the Jews are perfected, they really WILL be just like Christians. Bring on the Rapture, says Ann).
how about you told lin that you are not a fan of the shit key. i can’t quit giggling. seriously.
What I want to know, is how did you find Moses in the first place?
Yes but can Moses explain to me why my neighbor is Jewish enough to get Yom Kippur off but eats shellfish?
ADW: I think you should declare your appreciation to your nearest Rabbi. Right now.
RW: that IS a lot better than the Mega Church.
themuttprincess: yes, it counts
Mom: the last half of that comment was to CP - that must have got edited out on accident.
Nina: you should send all your Jewish people here! Or, at least, to Moses.
hellohahanarf: damn
DeannaBanana: I am special.
QofD: I dunno. But I would imagine it’s the same reason a lot of Catholics go to confession - and use a condom. ;-)
I’m sorry, I don’t see where they are all that different and it sounds like they believe in an afterlife. I personally, from an early age have always thought reincarnation made sense, too, to relearn something you missed the first time around.
I said to my Jewish friend once, “So…if you’re waiting for the Messiah and I’m waiting for the Second Coming, aren’t we probably waiting for the SAME person?”
And she said, “I never thought of it like that…could be.” And I said, “Would one of us be wrong then?” And she shrugged and said, “Meh. Oh well…what ya gonna do?”
Why are you sorry? :-)
I think that there are still a lot of similarities. But there are also a lot of differences that I didn’t understand or know enough to appreciate before. I was personally surprised at how many incorrect assumptions I had made because I of similarities I had assumed were there.
From what I gathered talking to Moses (ah shit that’s funny), the Jewish concept of the Messiah and the Christian concept of the Messiah are very different. The Jewish concept is more about a worldly, almost secular leader that fixes things - to some degree anyway - in a political sense as much as in a spiritual one.
All this time, I thought Jews were just like Catholics… identified by their religion but not actual practitioners unless directed by the calendar.
I’m going to assume you didn’t MEAN that to be insulting.
Regardless of intent… Ouch there, Gecko.